Today, I’m going to share an email exchange I had with a reader the other day. They turned out to be agnostic, I figured they weren’t Christian from their initial question.
You are going to learn, a big reason for Peg’s unbelief is due to common Christian teachings. Teachings that I believe to be false doctrine. That is why I’m sharing this thread with you today, so you can see how our beliefs affect other people.
It’s why I work so hard on this site, I want Christians and nonbelievers to look a bit harder at the Bible. I don’t want them to digest the common teachings, I just want them to read the pages and apply a little common sense to them.
Without further ado, here’s the thread. Peg’s text is on a gray background.
I hope you enjoy it.
Name: Peg
Question: If these “saints” appeared to many in the town, why isn’t there extrabiblical evidence for this?
Good morning and thanks for reaching out.
I assume you’re referring to the study and Scripture about the graves being opened?
I think we have to realize, these events occurred 2,000 years ago. Well before the common man knew how to read and write, much less have some way to make a record and preserve it. It’s quite a miracle in of itself that we have the historical records from the past that we do.
While not directly related to your question, you may appreciate this.
Look up the “Moabite stone.” That’s a secular account of history recorded in the Bible. You may also be familiar with the 7 years of famine and 7 years of plenty in the Biblical story with Joseph. I mention it, and provide a note about it being recorded in Egypt’s history.
Also, consider the fact that Jesus Christ Himself is recorded all over secular history. I explained that in an article titled, “Did Jesus Exist?”
Thanks for reading and have a great day!
I see, so you do not actually have any credible answers to the question. I believe the bible is a book written by humans, not inspired at all by a “god.” That is why there are such ridiculous stories in it about many people rising from a grave (zombies). There is also the ridiculous story about god putting an identifying mark on Abel for killing Cain, so that he would be safe from others. What others? The bible is a book embodied in the genres of narrative, letters, and poetry with no extrabiblical evidence for most of the stories. The bible is not to be taken literally.
Peggy,
Since you’re an atheist, why are you wasting your time and my time?
If you read the last link I sent you, you would see there is a plethora of evidence that Jesus existed from extra Biblical historical documents. Do you realize, there are more Biblical manuscripts in existence than all other writings of antiquity combined? More than Plato, Aristotle, Homer, and any other ancient author you can think of, combined.
Coincidence?
You should realize, evolution is not a proven theory, and there is much debate and doubt among its supporters. On the other hand, our DNA is genetic “code” according to scientists. What is “code”? It’s information. Where does information come from? A mind.
I understand that you cannot answer the questions. Wasting your time? So, tell me, whom are you and others trying to actually save? We question everything and you say we are “wasting your time.” So be it, Brandon. I am actually an agnostic just like you and everyone else, because no one knows for sure if a god exists. So, you are saying you cannot discuss your beliefs with those who are in doubt or do not believe, but with just those who think like you or may think like you? There are also many many other books by bible scholars and others who very much disagree with you. Also, evolution is a proven fact, whether you believe it or not. If you had any education, you would know that a scientific “theory” is not defined in the way a lay person would use it. In short, a scientific “theory” is a well-thought-out explanation for observation of the natural world that has been constructed using the scientific method and which brings together many facts and hypotheses. If there are extrabiblical documents, they are most likely forged. The paragraph by Josephus is an interpolation. Read bible scholar, Bart Ehrman’s, book: “FORGED – Writing In The Name Of God – Why The Bible’s Authors Are Not Who We Think They Are.” You’ll thank me later!
Good-day, Brandon, and try to keep it real, as reality counts.
Peg
Peg,
You came to me, I didn’t come you to. Try to be respectful, and don’t place words in peoples mouth. You didn’t come to me with a genuine question, you simply wanted an argument. You’re upset with Christians for spreading some good in the world.
I notice you sidestepped my questions, so I’ll repeat them.
Our DNA is genetic “code” according to scientists.
What is “code”?
It’s information.
Where does information come from?
A mind.
Whose mind Peg?
This universe and all life didn’t magically appear. Something cannot come from nothing, and that’s what evolution would have you believe. Moreover, whoever told you evolution is a fact is seriously mistaken. All the big shot evolutions are looking for a new theory, as their theory is always falling apart.
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Lastly, the article I wrote about Jesus existence is completely legit. You want to write off one account, go write off all of them. We both know you cannot do it. It’s okay if you don’t believe, but there’s no reason to come and dump on someone who does. You have an axe to grind which is sad. Just live life and be happy.
Maybe you should take your own advice about being respectful. I am just asking the hard questions of which you have no answers; thereby, you get upset. You are the one who seemed to be looking for an argument, not me. I am only asking questions of the claims you and the other religious put out there. But, if you want to twist my words, okay, Brandon, so be it. You say christians spread “good in the world?” How so, when the god created a hell just because people use their brains to think and come to different conclusions about the supernatural’s existence? I just don’t see how you rationalize a torturous hell for those who are unbelievers or even people who worship differently from you. It is punishing eternally for finite crimes. It is also god having conditional love and not unconditional. Also, why would an all-knowing god leave a book, of all things, to people in the Middle East to relay his message to us?
As far as the DNA “code”, I am not a scientist, and DNA may be a code, but who is to say it was a “god” that did it? You are putting the cart before the horse. A god would have to be proven first to claim that he created DNA. Also, what about the junk DNA? Did god make an error? Junk DNA serves no purpose. If god created the cosmos, why put useless code in the DNA? We can find many articles ascribing for and against junk DNA, so we have a conundrum there.
I think I told you about the meaning of “theory” according to scientists and to a lay person, Brandon. Are you a scientist?
Atheists say that “we don’t know” exactly what happened before the Big Bang and it is more than alright to say we don’t know and neither do you or anyone else. Evolution does not say that everything came from chance, Brandon, but from natural selection. Even if evolution was proven to be false (which it has not) it would not mean that a “god did it” as that would be the default position. I think evolution and abiogenesis makes a whole lot more sense than the supernatural in that a god implanted his son (himself) into a virgin, had himself crucified, and then raised himself to himself.
I am not “dumping” on you or have an “axe to grind”. Sorry, you cannot see that. I just try to state what I think is accurate and correct, just like you and others do.
I question everything and so should you.
Peg
Peg,
Good morning.
Perhaps we misunderstood each others tone, this is email communication.
Let’s see where we’re at…
I did provide you with answers, and very valid secular historical references that Jesus existed, not to mention, secular accounts of Biblical history.
Christians have been helping people in need since the dawn of Christianity. You can do a search and find all the Christian organizations that help the poor, children, women, and so on.
DNA is code. It’s scientifically called, “genetic code.” That’s critical to understand. Code comes from a mind Peg. Microsoft Windows is code and it came from a mind, it didn’t invent itself, right? Code cannot come into existence all by itself. This proves that God does exist. The color of your eyes, hair, etc were chosen according to your DNA, your “genetic code.”
I encourage you to look up “bacterial flagellum,” which is a machine. You will also find “molecular machines” very interesting. These are micro organisms that scientists now realize are machines. Machines are created from a mind for a purpose.
Science discovered DNA in 1869, they didn’t realize it had a double helix until 1953. By the 1960s, some scientists started calling portions of DNA they did not understand “junk.” Honestly, it’s a bit preposterous to call something junk, when they hardly understand it. Get this, what they thought was “junk DNA,” was not junk at all.
- So-called junk DNA plays critical role in mammalian development
- Noncoding “Junk” DNA Is Important for Limb Formation
Peg, evolution is truly a non-starter. As I shared prior, there’s no consensus, and even evolutionists say they need a new theory. Unfortunately, the science of evolution has become a faith, not science. Moreover, what created the process of “natural selection,” if this rule was true? Before we get there, go back to the Big Bang. Science tells us, in the beginning, all the matter in the universe was the size of a single pea. Then, we have the Big Bang where nothing became everything. There’s only one problem, where did all the matter come from?
What created the matter, and the rules that govern the matter?
Before the Big Bang, no matter, energy, or physics existed that could have caused the universe to come into existence. That means, whatever caused the matter and our universe to come into existence, must exist outside of our universe, outside of space and time. As space and time was only created at the Big Bang. Nothing can be created in a universe that did not exist, so it came from somewhere else.
Where, what, or who?
Now we come to theology, and I do question everything.
You must understand, not all Christians believe the same way. What you described about God and Jesus is called the trinity, it’s not something I believe. In fact, I went into great detail to share that with our audience. Neither do I believe Noah’s Flood was global, or that we all came from Adam and Eve. I am quite sure, those have always been obstacles for you, they would be for me.
I hope you have a great day.
Conclusion
As you read, Peg actually cited many reasons for her unbelief, and I really don’t blame her.
I purposely didn’t address “the others” Cain was afraid of, or eternal hell. I wanted to keep the conversation focused on the material she puts stock in, science. However, her Biblically observations are worth noting.
She realizes, there were other people on earth at the time of Adam and Eve. In her mind, she also realizes a loving God would not have people roast in hell forever. Nor could He raise Himself to Himself.
In essence, Peg lost her belief before she ever had any. No doubt, common Christian teachings got to her before she could ever open the pages of Scripture herself. That’s why it’s critical that we are sure about something, before we share it with others.
Judgment starts at the house of God. Not just for pastors, but for anyone who teaches and shares the Word. Every one of us are going to be held accountable. It’s time we re-examine our beliefs, and ensure they are truly Biblical. Never rush to a belief and always question what you’re taught.
Christianity cannot continue to support these unsubstantiated Biblical doctrines. Future generations simply will have none of it, and who can blame them?